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Constituent Assembly Of India - Volume VII

Dated: December 01, 1948

Shri H. V. Kamath: In the draft article the antecedents of the words 'other' matter were libel, slander, defamation and sedition, all of them.

Shri K. M. Munshi: I cannot agree with my honourable friend.

Mr. Vice-President: Do you press amendment 449?

Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad: Yes.

Mr. Vice-President: It will be put to vote. We next come to 450, 451, 452, 453, 465 and 478-all are of similar import and should be considered together. Amendment 450 is allowed.

Sardar Hukum Singh (East Punjab: Sikh): Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I beg to move:

"That clause (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) of article 13 be deleted."

Sir, in article 13 (1), sub-clauses (a), (b) and (c), they give constitutional protection to the individual against the coercive power of the State, if they stood by themselves. But sub-clause (2) to (6) of article 13 would appear to take away the very soul out of these protective clauses. These lay down that nothing in sub-clauses (a), (b), (c) of article 13 shall effect the operation of any of the existing laws, that is, the various laws that abrogate the rights envisaged in sub-clause (1) which were enacted for the suppression of human liberties, for instance, the Criminal Law Amendment Act, the Press Act, and other various security Acts. If they are to continue in the same way as before, then where is the change ushered in and so loudly talked of? The main purpose of declaring the rights as fundamental is to safeguard the freedom of the citizen against any interference by the ordinary legislature and the executive of the day. The rights detailed in article 13(1) are such that they cannot be alienated by any individual, even voluntarily. The Government of the day is particularly precluded from infringing them, except under very special circumstances. But here the freedom of assembling, freedom of the press and other freedoms have been made so precarious and entirely left at the mercy of the legislature that the whole beauty and the charm has been taken away. It is not only the existing laws that have been subjected to this clause, but the State has been further armed with extraordinary powers to make any law relating to libel, slander etc. It may be said that every State should have the power and jurisdiction to make laws with regard to such matters as sedition, slander and libel. But in other countries like America it is for the Supreme Court to judge the matter, keeping in view all the circumstances and the environments, and to say whether individual liberty has been sufficiently safeguarded or whether the legislature has transgressed into the freedom of the citizen. The balance is kept in the hands of the judiciary which in the case of all civilized countries has always weighed honestly and consequently protected the citizen from unfair encroachment by legislatures. But a curious method is being adopted under our Constitution by adding these sub-clauses (2) to (6). The Honourable Mover defended these sub-clauses by remarking that he could quote at least one precedent for each of these restrictions. But it is here that the difference has, that whereas in those countries it is the judiciary which regulates the spheres of these freedoms and the extent of the restrictions to be imposed, under article 13, it is the legislature that is being empowered with these powers by sub-clauses (2) to (6). The right to freedom of speech is given in article 13(1)(a), but it has been restricted by allowing the legislature to enact any measure under 13(2), relating to matters which undermine the authority or foundation of the State; the right to assembly seems guaranteed under 13(1)(b), but it has been made subject to the qualification that legislation may be adopted in the interest of public order-13(3). Further under 13(4) to 13(6), any legislation restricting these liberties can be enacted "in the interest of the general public". Now who is to judge whether any measure adopted or legislation enacted is "in the interest of the general public" or "in the interest of public order", or whether it relates to "any matter which undermines the authority or foundation of the State"? The sphere of the Supreme Court will be very limited. The only question before it would be whether the legislation concerned is "in the interest of the public order". Only the bona-fides of the legislature will be the main point for decision by the Court and when once it is found by the court that the Government honestly believed that the legislation was needed "in the interest of the public order", there would be nothing left for its interference. The proviso in article 13(3) has been so worded as to remove from the Supreme Court its competence to consider and determine whether in fact there were circumstances justifying such legislation. The actual provisions and the extent of the restrictions imposed would be out of the scope of judicial determination.

For further illustration we may take the law of sedition enacted under 13(2). All that the Supreme Court shall have to adjudicate upon would be whether the law enacted relates to "sedition" and if it does, the judiciary would be bound to come to a finding that it is valid. It would not be for the Judge to probe into the matter whether the actual provisions are oppressive and unjust. If the restriction is allowed to remain as it is contemplated in 13(2), then the citizens will have no chance of getting any law relating to sedition declared invalid, howsoever oppressive it might be in restricting and negativing the freedom promised in 13(1)(a). The "court" would be bound to limit its enquiry within this field that the Parliament is permitted under the Constitution to make any laws pertaining to sedition and so it has done that. The constitution is not infringed anywhere, and rather, the draft is declaring valid in advance any law that might be enacted by the Parliament-only if it related to sedition. Similar is the case of other freedom posed in article 13(1) but eclipsed and negatived in clauses (2) to (6).

It may be argued that under a national government, the legislature, representative of the people and elected on adult franchise, can and should be trusted for the safe custody of citizens' rights. But as has been aptly remarked, "If the danger of executive aggression has disappeared, that from legislative interference has greatly increased, and it is largely against this danger that the modern declarations of fundamental rights are directed, as formerly they were directed against the tyranny of autocratic kings."

The very object of a Bill of Rights is to place these rights out of the influence of the ordinary legislature, and if, as under clauses (2) to (6) of article 13, we leave it to this very body, which in a democracy, is nothing beyond one political party, to finally judge when these rights, so sacred on paper and glorified as Fundamentals, are to be extinguished, we are certainly making these freedoms illusory.

If the other countries like the U.S.A. have placed full confidence in their Judiciary and by their long experience it has been found that the confidence was not misplaced, why should we not depend upon similar guardians to protect the individual liberties and the State interests, instead of hedging round freedom by so many exceptions under these sub-clauses?

Sir, I commend this amendment to the House.

Mr. Vice-President: The next amendment on the list is the alternative amendment No. 451, in the same of Mr. Mahboob Ali Baig.

Mahboob Ali Baig Sahib Bahadur: Sir, I move:

"That the following words be inserted at the beginning of clauses (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) of article 13:-

'Without prejudice and subject to the provisions of article 8."

My purpose in moving this amendment is twofold. Firstly, I want to know the mind of Dr. Ambedkar and the Drafting Committee how article 8 stands in relation to these provisos. It may be asked whether these clauses (2) to (6)are governed by article 8 or not. If these clauses are governed by article 8, may I refer to article 8 itself. It says:

"All laws in force immediately before the commencement of this Constitution in the territory of India, in so far as they are inconsistent with the provisions of this Part."

The words "inconsistent with the provisions of this part" do not affect the existing laws relating to libel, the existing laws relating to restrictions on the exercise of the rights with regard to association or assembly. That means that the existing laws mentioned in clauses (2) to (6) are not all rendered void under Article 8. The intention is clear from the footnote that is appended to article 15, where the reason for the inclusion of the word "personal" is given There it is said:

"The Committee is of opinion that the word 'liberty' should be qualified by the insertion of the word 'personal' before it, for otherwise it might be construed very widely so as to include even the freedom already dealt with in article 13."

Thus it is very clear that if the existing law relates to libel, if it relates to meetings or associations, or freedom of speech or expression, then that existing law stands in spite of the fact that article 8 says that any law in force which is inconsistent with the fundamental rights is void. So we come to this position. In the past the existing laws, for instance, the Criminal Law Amendment Acts, the Press Acts or the Security Acts laid down restrictions which are inconsistent with the liberties mentioned in clause (1).They shall be in operation and they are not rendered void. That seems to be the meaning that can naturally be attached to this.

The second point which I wish to submit is this. By the Constitution certain powers are given to the legislature or the executive. Whether a court can question the validity or otherwise of such action, order or law is another question. My opinion is that where there is a provision in the Constitution itself giving power to the legislature or in this case the State covering the legislature, executive, local bodies and such other institutions, the jurisdiction of the court is ousted, for the court would say that in the constitution itself power is granted to the legislature to deprive, restrict or limit the rights of the citizen and so they cannot go into the validity or otherwise of the law or order, unless as it is said there is mala fides. It is for the authorities to judge whether certain circumstances have arisen for which an order or law can be passed. Anyhow I pose this question to the Chairman of the Drafting Committee whether in these circumstances, viz., where there is in existence a provision in the constitution itself empowering the legislature or the executive to pass an order or law abridging the rights mentioned in clause (1), the court can go into the merits or demerits of the order or law and declare a certain law invalid or a certain Act as not justified. In my view the court's jurisdiction is ousted by clearly mentioning in the constitution itself that the State shall have the power to make laws relating to libel, association or assembly in the interest of public order, restrictions on the exercise of....

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Bombay: General): Sir, if I might interrupt my honourable friend, I have understood his point and I appreciate it and I undertake to reply and satisfy him as to what it means. It is therefore unnecessary for him to dilate further on the point.

Mahboob Ali Baig Sahib Bahadur: The third point which I would submit is this. The new set up would be what is called parliamentary democracy or rule by a certain political party, by the party executive or party government and we can well imagine what would be the measure of fundamental rights that the people would enjoy under parliamentary democracy or rule by a party. In these circumstances is it not wise or necessary in the interest of the general public that the future legislatures ruled by a party or the executive ruled by a party are not given powers by this very constitution itself? For as has been said 'power corrupteth' and if absolute power is placed in the hands of party government by virtue of the terms of this constitution itself, such legislature or executive will become absolutely corrupt. Therefore, I move that if at all these provisos are necessary, they must be subject to the provision that no law can be passed, no law would be applicable which is inconsistent with the freedoms mentioned in sub-clause (1). Sir, I move.

Mr. Vice-President: The next group consists of amendments Nos. 454, 455, 469, 475, 481, and the first part of 485. They are of similar import and I allow amendment No.454 to be moved. There are certain amendments to the amendment also.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: Sir, I move:

"That in clauses (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) of article 13 the words "affect the operation of any existing law, or" be deleted."

To this clause an amendment has been given by the Honourable Dr. Ambedkar.

Mr. Vice-President: May I suggest that when you move amendment No. 454 you move it along with your new amendment?

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: I have moved No. 454, to which an amendment, stands in the name of the Honourable Dr. Ambedkar. To this latter I have given an amendment which is No. 3 in today's list. I have also given two other amendments to amendment No. 454. So I shall, with your permission, move them in one bloc.

Sir, I move:

"That with reference to amendment No. 49 of list 1 of the Amendment to Amendments-

(i) in clause (2) of article 13 for the word 'any' where it occurs for the second time the word 'reasonable' be substituted and the word 'sedition' in the said clause be omitted.

(ii) that in clauses (3), (4), (5) and (6) of article 13 before the word 'restrictions' the word 'reasonable' be inserted."

The net result of these amendments is the following: I want that the words 'affect the operation of any existing law or" be deleted and also that before the word "restrictions" in clauses (3), (4), (5) and (6) the word "reasonable" be placed. I also want that in clause (2) for the word 'any' where it occurs for the second time, the word 'reasonable' be substituted.

If my suggestion is accepted by the House then clause (3) would read:

"Nothing in sub-clause (b) of the said clause shall prevent the State from making anything, imposing in the interests of public order reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the right conferred by the said sub-clause."

As regards the effect of amendment No. 454, if the following words are taken away-

"Affect the operation of any existing law, or"

the result will be that, not that all the present laws which are in force today will be taken away, but only such laws or portions of such laws as are inconsistent with the fundamental rights according to article 13, will be taken away, and article 8 will be in force.

Now I will deal with these amendments separately. I want to deal with 454 first.

You will be pleased to observe that so far as article 8 is concerned, it really keeps alive all the laws which are in force today, except such portions of them as are inconsistent with the fundamental rights conferred by Part III. These words-"affect the operation of any existing law, or"......

Mr. Vice-President: How can you deal with a thing unless it is moved by Dr. Ambedkar?

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: In the first instance, a resolution has been passed by this House that all amendments shall be taken as moved without being formally moved. Secondly, if you allow me another chance to speak on the amendment when moved by Dr. Ambedkar, I will be content to move my amendment then. Only with a view to save time, I have taken this course and, I had asked for your permission, though it was unnecessary to do so.

Mr. Vice-President: All right.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: Thank you. I was speaking of the effect of the words-"affect the operation of any existing law, or" and I submitted to the House that so far as the words of article 8 go, even if these words are not there, all the present laws shall be alive. They shall not be dead by the fact that article 8 exists in Part III. The article reads thus:

"All laws in force immediately before the commencement of this Constitution in the territory of India, in so far as they are inconsistent with the provisions of this Part, shall, to the extent of such inconsistency, be void."

So that the real effect which this Constitution wants to give is that so far as those laws are inconsistent, they should be made inoperative, The rest will continue. So If these words are not there-"affect the operation of any existing law, or"-that would make no difference. If you examine the amendment to be moved by Dr. Ambedkar, the result is the same because in his amendment the words "in so far as it imposes" appear. Thus article 8 governs article 13 according to my amendment as well as his. The amendment of Dr. Ambedkar is unnecessary if the House accepts my amendment No. 454.

Mr. Vice-President: It seems to me that if Dr. Ambedkar moves his amendment, then your amendment will not be necessary at all.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: My amendment will still be necessary as it deals with other matters also.

Mr. Vice-President: I do not wish to discuss the matter with you.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: There are several clauses in this Constitution in which an attempt has been made to keep the present laws alive as much as possible. Article 8 is the first attempt. According to article 8 only to the extent of inconsistency such laws will become inoperative. Therefore, any further attempt was unnecessary.

In article 27 an attempt has again been made to keep alive certain of the laws that come within the purview of article 27 in the proviso. Then again not being content with this, another section is there in the Constitution, namely, article 307, which reads:

"Subject to the other provisions of this Constitution, all the laws in force in the territory of India immediately before the commencement of this Constitution shall continue in force therein until altered or repealed or amended by a competent Legislature or other competent authority."

The laws in force are defined in Explanation No. 1 and there is clause (2) which deals with certain aspects of the question. Even if these sections were not there, even then the general principle is that the law would continue in force unless repealed by any enactment or declared illegal by any Court. Therefore, so far as the continuance of the present law is concerned, the words "affect the operation of any existing law, or" are surplus, unnecessary and futile. But I would not have submitted this amendment before the House if these words were only surplus. They have another tendency and that has been emphasized by the previous speaker. There are good many amendments in the list of amendments to the same effect. I have received representations from various bodies and persons who have said in their telegrams and letters that these words should be removed, because the apprehension is that as article 8 is part of the Constitution, so is article 13 part of the Constitution. In sequence article 13 comes later and numerically it is of greater import. If article 8 is good law, so is article 13. As a matter of fact article 13 is sufficient by itself, and all the present laws, it may and can be argued, must be continued in spite of article 8. This is the general apprehension in the public mind and it is therefore that Dr. Ambedkar has also been forced to table an amendment No. 49 to my amendment No. 454.

This interpretation and argument may be wrong; this maybe unjustifiable; but such an argument is possible. In my opinion the law must be simple and not vague and ununderstandable. Therefore these mischievous and misleading words should be taken away. As they have further the effect of misleading the public I hold that these words, unless taken away, shall not allay public fear.

When I read these different sections from 9 to 13 and up to 26, and when I read of these Fundamental Rights, to be frank I missed the most fundamental right which any national in any country must have viz., the right to vote.

Mr. Vice-President: That is not the subject matter of the present discussion. The honourable Member should confine his remarks to his amendment.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: In considering article 15also the House will come to the conclusion that the most important of the Fundamental Right of personal liberty and life has not been made justiciable nor mentioned in article 13. If the House has in its mind the present position in the country, it will come to the conclusion that the present state of things is anything but satisfactory. Freedom of speech and expression have been restricted by sub-clause (2). Fortunately the honourable Member Mr. Munshi has spoken before you about deletion of the word sedition. If these words 'affect the operation of existing laws' are not removed the effect would be that sedition would continue to mean what it has been meaning in spite of the contrary ruling of the Privy Council given in 1945. If the present laws are allowed to operate without being controlled or governed by article 8 the position will be irretrievably intolerable. Thus my submission is that in regard to freedom of speech and expression if you allow the present law to be continued without testing it in a court of law, a situation would arise which would not be regarded as satisfactory by the citizens of India.

Similarly, at present you have the right to assemble peaceably and without arms and you have in 1947 passed a law under which even peaceable assemblage could be bombed without warning from the sky. We have today many provisions which are against this peaceable assembling. Similarly in regard to ban on association or unions.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Is it open to my honourable Friend to speak generally on the clauses?

Mr. Vice-President: That is what I am trying to draw his attention to.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: This is an abuse of the procedure of the House. I cannot help saying that. When a member speaks on an amendment, he must confine himself to that amendment. He cannot avail himself of this opportunity of rambling over the entire field.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: I am speaking on the amendment; but the manner in which Dr. Ambedkar speaks and expresses himself is extremely objectionable. Why should he get up and speak in a threatening mood or domineering tone?

Mr. Vice-President: Everybody seems to have lost his temper except the Chair. (Laughter). I had given a warning to Mr. Bhargava and, just now, was about to repeat it when Dr. Ambedkar stood up. I am perfectly certain that he was carried away by his feeling. I do not see any reason why there should be so much feeling aroused. He has been under a strain for days together. I can well understand his position and I hope that the House will allow the matter to rest there.

Now, I hope Mr. Bhargava realises the position.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: I will speak only on the amendment. But when a Member speaks on an amendment, it is not for other members to decide what is relevant and what is not.

Mr. Vice-President: I was about to say so, but I was interrupted.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: Sir, I repeat that unless and until these offending words are removed and if the present law is allowed to continue without the validity of the present laws being tested in any court, the situation in the country will be most unsatisfactory. I am adverting to the present law in order to point out that it is objectionable and if it continues to have the force of law, there will be no use in granting Fundamental Rights. Therefore I am entitled to speak of the Fundamental Rights. I will certainly not speak if you do not allow me, but I maintain that whatever I was and am saying is perfectly relevant. (Hon. Members: 'Go on'). Sir, if I do not refer to the situation in the country and to the fact that this law does not allow the present state of tension in the country to be moved, what is the use of the Fundamental Rights. I ask.

Mr. Vice-President: Kindly remember one thing which is that you may refer to it in a general manner and not make that the principal point of your speech on this occasion. You may refer to all that in such a way as to adopt a via media where your purpose will be served without taking up more time than is actually necessary.

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: I am alive to the fact that it is a sin to take up the time of the House unnecessarily. I have been exercising as much restraint as possible. I thank you for the advice given by you. I will not refer to the present situation also if you do not like it.

But a few days ago the Honourable Sardar Patel, in a Convocation Address delivered by him, told the whole country that the labourer in the field and the ordinary man in the street has not felt the glow of India's freedom. Nobody feels that glow today, though India is free. Why? If the Fundamental Rights are there and if they are enjoyed by the people, why is there not this glow of freedom? The reason is that these offending words seem to nullify what article 8 seems to grant in respect of the present laws and people do not take us seriously. That is the cause of the general apathy of the people. If I referred in connection with this matter to the present situation , my object was only to emphasise that the present situation is very unsatisfactory. I will leave the matter at that.

As regards the amendment for the addition of the word 'reasonable' I will beg the House kindly to consider it calmly and dispassionately. We have heard the speeches of Sardar Hukam Singh and Mr. Mahboob Ali Baig. Both of them asked what would happen to the Fundamental Rights if the legislature has the right to substantially restrict the Fundamental Rights? That is quite true. Are the destinies of the people of this country and the nationals of this country and their rights to be regulated by the executive and by the legislature or by the courts? This is the question of questions. The question has been asked, if the Legislature enacts a particular Act, is that the final word? If you consider clauses (3) to (6) you will come to the conclusion that, as soon as you find that in the Statement of Objects and Reasons an enactment says that its object is to serve the interests of the public or to protect public order, then the courts would be helpless to come to the rescue of the nationals of this country in respect of the restrictions. Similarly, if in the operative part of any of the sections of any law it is so stated in the Act, I beg to ask what court will be able to say that, as matter of fact the legislature was not authorised to enact a particular law. My submission is that the Supreme Court should ultimately be the arbiter and should have the final say in regard to the destinies of our nationals. Therefore, if you put the word 'reasonable' here, the question will be solved and all the doubts will be resolved.

Sir, one speaker was asking where the soul in the lifeless article 13 was? I am putting the soul there. If you put the word 'reasonable' there, the court will have to see whether a particular Act is in the interests of the public and secondly whether the restrictions imposed by the legislatures are reasonable, proper and necessary in the circumstances of the case. The courts shall have to go into the question and it will not be the legislature and the executive who could play with the fundamental rights of the people. It is the courts which will have the final say. Therefore my submission is that we must put in these words "reasonable" or "proper" or "necessary" or whatever good word the House likes. I understand that Dr. Ambedkar is agreeable to the word "reasonable". I have therefore put in the word "reasonable" to become reasonable. Otherwise if words like "necessary" or "proper" had been accepted, I do not think they would have taken away from but would have materially added to the liberties of the country. Therefore I respectfully request that the amendment I have tabled maybe accepted so that article 13 may be made justiciable. Otherwise article 13 is a nullity. It is not fully justiciable now and the courts will not be able to say whether the restrictions are necessary or reasonable. If any cases are referred to the courts, they will have to decide whether restriction is in the interests of the public or not but that must already have been decided by the words of the enactment. Therefore the courts will not be able to say whether a fundamental right has been infringed or not. Therefore my submission is that, if you put in the word "reasonable", you will be giving the courts the final authority to say whether the restrictions put are reasonable or reasonably necessary or not. With the words, I commend this amendment to the House.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"that with reference to amendment No. 454......"

Shri H. V. Kamath: On a point of order, Sir, has amendment No. 454 been moved?

Mr. Vice-President: Please continue.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:

"with reference to amendment No. 454 of the List of amendments-

(i) in clauses (3), (4), (5) and (6) of article 13, after the words 'any existing law' the words 'in so far as it imposes' be inserted, and

(ii) in clause (6) of article 13, after the words 'in particular' the words 'nothing in the said clause shall affect the operation of any existing law in so far as it prescribes or empowers any authority to prescribe, or prevent the State from making any law' be inserted."

Syed Abdur Rouf (Assam: Muslim): On a point of order, Sir, I think that Dr. Ambedkar's amendment cannot be an amendment to amendment No. 454. Amendment No. 454 seeks to delete clauses (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6), whereas Dr. Ambedkar's amendment seeks to insert some words in those clauses and cannot therefore be moved as an amendment to an amendment.

Mr. Vice-President: It seems to me that what Dr. Ambedkar really seeks to do is to retain the original clauses with certain qualifications. Therefore I rule that he is in order.

Shri H. V. Kamath: This will have the effect of negativing the original amendment.

Mr. Vice-President: Kindly take your seat.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: From the speeches which have been made on article 13 and article 8 and the words "existing law" which occur in some of the provisos to article 13, it seems to me that there is a good deal of misunderstanding about what is exactly intended to be done with regard to existing law. Now the fundamental article is article 8 which specifically, without any kind of reservation, says that any existing law which is inconsistent with the Fundamental Rights as enacted in this part of the Constitution is void. That is a fundamental proposition and I have no doubt about it that any trained lawyer, if he was asked to interpret the words "existing law" occurring in the sub-clauses to article 13, would read "existing law" in so far as it is not inconsistent with the fundamental rights. There is no doubt that is the way in which the phrase "existing law" in the sub-clauses would be interpreted. It is unnecessary to repeat the proposition stated in article 8 every time the phrase "existing law" occurs, because it is a rule of interpretation that for interpreting any law, all relevant sections shall be taken into account and read in such a way that one section is reconciled with another. Therefore the Drafting Committee felt that they have laid down in article 8 the full and complete proposition that any existing law, in so far as it is inconsistent with the Fundamental Rights, will stand abrogated. The Drafting Committee did not feel it necessary to incorporate some such qualification in using the phrase "existing law" in the various clauses where these words occur. As I see, many people have not been able to read the clause in that way. In reading "existing law", they seem to forget what has already been stated in article 8. In order to remove the misunderstanding that is likely to be caused in a layman's mind, I have brought forward this amendment to sub-clauses (3), (4), (5) and (6). I will read for illustration sub-clause (3) with my amendment.

"Nothing in sub-clause (b) of the said clause shall affect the operation of any existing law in so far as it imposes, or prevent the State from making any law, imposing in the interests of public order."

I am accepting Mr. Bhargava's amendment and so I will add the word "reasonable" also.

"imposing in the interests of public order reasonable restrictions on the exercise of the right conferred by the said sub-clause."

Now, the words "in so far as it imposes" to my mind make the idea complete and free from any doubt that the existing law is saved only in so far as it imposes reasonable restrictions. I think with that amendment there ought to be no difficulty in understanding that the existing law is saved only to a limited extent, it is saved only fit is not in conflict with the Fundamental Rights.

Sub-clause (6) has been differently worded, because the word there is different from what occurs in sub-clauses (3), (4) and (5). Honourable Members will be able to read for themselves in order to make out what it exactly means.

Now, my friend, Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava entered into a great tirade against the Drafting Committee, accusing them of having gone out of their way to preserve existing laws. I do not know what he wants the Drafting Committee to do. Does he want us to say straightaway that all existing laws shall stand abrogated on the day on which the Constitution comes into existence?

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: Not exactly.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: What we have said is that the existing law shall stand abrogated in so far as they are inconsistent with the provisions of this Constitution. Surely the administration of this country is dependent upon the continued existence of the laws which are in force today. It would bring down the whole administration to pieces if the existing laws were completely and wholly abrogated.

Now I take article 307. He said that we have made provisions that the existing laws should be continued unless amended. Now, I should have thought that a man who understands law ought to be able to realize this fact that after the Constitution comes into existence, the exclusive power of making law in this country belongs to Parliament or to the several local legislatures in their respective spheres. Obviously, if you enunciate the proposition that hereafter no law shall be in operation or shall have any force or sanction, unless it has been enacted by Parliament, what would be the position? The position would be that all the laws which have been made by the earlier legislature, by the Central Legislative Assembly or the Provincial Legislative Assembly would absolutely fall to pieces, because they would cease to have any sanction, not having been made by the Parliament or by the local legislatures, which under this Constitution are the only body which are entitled to make law. It is, therefore, necessary that a provision should exist in the Constitution that any laws which have been already made shall not stand abrogated for the mere reason that they have not been made by Parliament. That is the reason why article 307 has been introduced into this Constitution. I, therefore, submit, Sir, that my amendment which particularizes the portion of the existing law which shall continue in operation so far as the Fundamental Rights are concerned, meets the difficulty, which several honourable Members have felt by reason of the fact that they find it difficult to read article 13 in conjunction with article 8. I therefore, think that this amendment of mine clarifies the position and hope the House will not find it difficult to accept it.

(Amendment No. 50 to amendment No. 454 was not moved.)

(Amendments Nos. 455, 469, 475 and 481 were not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: Then we shall take up amendment No.485, first part. The House can well realize that I am going through a painful process in order to shorten the time spent on putting the different amendments to the vote.

Syed Abdur Rouf: I want the first part of the amendment to be put to the vote.

Mr. Vice-President: Then we come to another group, 456,472, 484 and 495.

(Amendments Nos. 456, 472, 484 and 495 were not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: The next group consists of amendments Nos. 457, 466, 473 and 494.

(Amendments Nos. 457, 466, 473 and 494 were not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: Then amendment No. 458 standing in the name of Mr. Mohd. Tahir and Saiyid Jafar Imam.

Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar: That has already been covered by Mr. Mahboob Ali Baig's amendment.

Mr. Vice-President: Still, it would depend upon the Mover.

Mr. Mohd. Tahir (Bihar: Muslim): Sir, I beg to move:

"That in clause (2) of article 13, after the word 'sedition' the words 'communal passion' be inserted."

Now, Sir, we find that under this clause we are giving powers to the State to make laws as against certain offences such as libel, slander, defamation, sedition and similar offences against the State. Now I want that these words "communal passion" be also added after the word "sedition"-which means, agitating or exciting the minds of one community as against the other.

These words, Sir, libel, slander, defamation, sedition, are the common words found in the Indian Penal Code and fortunately or unfortunately, we find that this word does not find a place in the Indian Penal Code. The reason is very simple, because, the Indian Penal Code and the old laws were framed by a Government which was foreign to us. Now, this is the time when we must realise our merits and demerits. We know that the agitation and the excitement of communities against communities have done a great loss and disservice to our country as a whole. Therefore, Sir, I think that the addition of this word is necessary. To tell the truth, I would say that if in our country which is now an independent country, we are really sincere to ourselves, this word also must find a place in the Constitution. I would request and appeal to Dr. Ambedkar and the House as a whole to give sound reasoning and due consideration for the addition of this word.

At the end, Sir, I may submit that an amendment has been moved by Mr. Munshi and I do not know whether it is going to be accepted or not. In case that amendment is going to be accepted by the House. I would appeal that this word may be given a place in that amendment or wherever it is found suitable. With these words. Sir, I move.

Mr. Vice-President: We come next to amendment No. 459. It is in the name of Mr. Thomas. It is verbal and therefore disallowed.

Next we take up amendments nos. 460, 461 and the second part of 462. I would allow amendment No. 461 to be moved because that I regard as most comprehensive of the three. That is covered by Mr. Munshi's amendment. Is amendment No.460 moved?

Pandit Thakur Dass Bhargava: I do not want to move it.

Mr. Vice-President: Amendment No. 462; Mr. Kamath.

Shri H. V. Kamath: It is covered by amendment No. 461.

Mr. Vice-President: Amendment No. 462, first part. I was dealing with the second part just now. The first part is more or less a verbal amendment and is disallowed.

Then, amendments Nos. 463 and 464 coming from two different quarters are of similar import. Amendment No. 464, standing in the name of Shri Vishwambhar Dayal Tripathi may be moved.

(Amendment No. 464 was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: What about amendment No. 463, in the name of Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir?

Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir: Not moving, Sir.

Mr. Vice-President: Then, we take up amendments nos. 467 and 474. Amendment no. 467 may be moved. It stands in the name of Mr. Syamanandan Sahaya.

Shri Syamanandan Sahaya (Bihar: General): Sir, I beg to move:

"That in clause (3) of article 13, the word 'restrictions' the words 'for a defined period' be added."

Sir, in moving this amendment before the House, what was uppermost in my mind was to see whether actually even in the matter of the three freedoms so much spoken of, namely, the freedom of speech, freedom of association and freedom of movement, we had really gone to the extent that every one desired we should. I must admit that I did not feel happy over the phraseology of the clauses so far as this general desire in the mind of every body, not only in this House, but outside, obtained. I will, Sir, refer to the wording of sub-cause (b) of clause (1) of article 13. This sub-clause lays down that all citizens shall have the right to assemble peaceably and without arms. This is the Fundamental Right which we are granting to the people under the Constitution. Let us see how this fits in with clause (3) of article 13which is the restricting clause. Clause (3) lays down that nothing in sub-clause (b) of the said clause (1) shall affect the operation of any existing law, or prevent the State from making any law, imposing in the interests of public order restrictions on the exercise of the right conferred by the said sub-clause, Sir, the only right which we are giving by sub-clause (b) is the right to assemble peaceably and without arms. This right to assemble is not a general right of assembly under all conditions. To assemble peaceably is the first condition precedent and there is also a second condition. That condition is that the assembly should be without arms. On the top of these conditions we are laving down in sub-clause (3) that there shall be a further restricting power in the hands of the State. I would much rather that clauses (3) and (4) did not form part of our Constitution. But, if the Drafting Committee and the other people who have considered the matter carefully think that it is necessary to lay down restrictions even in the matter of assembling peaceably and without arms, I might respectfully submit that it would be necessary to further restrict this restricting power by saying that any law restricting this power must be for a specified period only. I do not think the House will agree that any State should place on the statute book a permanent law restricting this Fundamental Right of peaceful assembly.

The most that the Constitution could accommodate a particular Government at a particular time under a particular circumstance was to give it the power to restrict this right under these conditions but for a specified and defined period only and that I submit, Sir, is the purpose of my amendment. The best interpretation that one could put on this clause is that the Drafting Committee has erred too much on the cautions side in this matter and they have probably kept the Government too much and the citizens too little, in view. I will submit that both in sub-clauses (3) and (4) the words 'for a defined period' should be added in order that if a State at any time has to pass legislation to restrict these rights, they may do so only for a period. It does not mean that once a State has passed such a legislation it is debarred from following it up by a second legislation in time if necessary but we must lay down in the Constitution that we shall permit of no such restrictive law to be a permanent feature of the law of the land. A State should not be empowered to pass a legislation restricting permanently peaceful assembly and assembly without arms. I think such a general power in the armoury of any State, however popular or democratic, would not be desirable. In the larger interests of the country, and particularly at the formative stage of the country, to give such wide powers in the hands of the State and with regard to such Fundamental rights as, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of movement would, I believe, be harmful and result in the creation of a suffocating and stuffy atmosphere as opposed to the free air of a truly free country. Sir, I move the amendment and commend it to the acceptance of the House.

(Amendment No. 470 was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: 471 is disallowed as verbal. Nos.476 and 477 are of similar import. I allow 476.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir I move-

"That in clause (4) of article 13, for the words 'the general public' the words 'public order or morality' be substituted."

These words are inappropriate in that clause.

Mr. Vice-President: 477 is identical, 479, 480 and 486are of similar import

(Amendments Nos. 479, 480, and 486 were not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: 482 and 483.

(Amendment No. 482 was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: 483-Sardar Hukam Singh.

Sardar Hukam Singh: Sir, I beg to move:

"That in clause (5) of article 13, after the words 'existing law' the word 'which is not repugnant to the spirit of the provisions of article 8' be inserted."

The Honourable Dr. Ambedkar has rightly appreciated our fears and we feel that is the object of most of the amendments that have been moved Certainly there are fears in our minds that if these articles stand independently-articles 8 and 13,-then there is a danger of different constructions being put on them. Dr. Ambedkar has emphasised that if relevant articles of the Constitution are in question, all those articles that relate to one subject shall be taken into consideration when some construction is going to be put by any Court and then article 8 would govern because it says that "All laws in force immediately before the commencement of this Constitution in the territory of India, in so far as they are inconsistent with the provisions of this Part, shall to the extent of such inconsistency, be void". That we have adopted, and this is what we feel that it should be made clear that certainly those parts which are inconsistent would be void to that extent. If that is the object as Dr. Ambedkar has explained, then why not make it clear in this section as well. Where is the harm? I do not see that we would lose anything or that it would change the beauty of the phraseology even if we make it clear that these provisions are subject to article 8. This is to be admitted that there are certain laws in force just at present that restrict the liberty of the people. For instance I can quote the Land Alienation Act in Punjab. That allows only certain castes to purchase land of their own caste and precludes other castes to purchase that land. If this distinction were based on some economic ground, if it were to be enacted that all small tillers' rights would be safeguarded and their small lands would not be alienable, we could understand that alright and such a provision would be welcome. But when the discrimination is there, we too feel that such a law should stand abrogated so far as it is inconsistent with the provision in clause (5) or article 13. Because that gives freedom to acquire hold and dispose of property and if that law remains-Land Alienation Act, as it is and definition is not changed of the "agriculturist", there would be a conflict and there might be certain constructions by Court which would be unfair. So if that is the object as Dr. Ambedkar has explained that article 8 would govern, then we should make it clear and that is why I have suggested that after the words 'existing law' the words 'which is not repugnant to the spirit of the provisions of article 8' be inserted. That is my object and it should be made clear beyond any doubt.

Mr. Vice-President: Then we come to amendment No. 485, second part, standing in the name of Syed Abdur Rouf, and the first part of amendment No. 488 standing in the joint names of Dr. Pattabhi Sitaramayya and others. The latter seems to be the more comprehensive of the two and may be moved.

(Amendment No. 488 was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: Then in that case, the second part of amendment No. 485, standing in the name of Syed Abdur Rouf may be moved.

Syed Abdur Rouf: Sir, I beg to move:

"That in clause (5) of article 13, for the word 'State', the word 'Parliament' be substituted."

Sir, in sub-clauses (d), (e) and (f), we have got the most valuable of our Fundamental Rights. But clause (5) seems to take away most of our rights, because States have been given power to restrict, to abridge and even to takeaway the rights if and when they like. We remember the word 'State' has been defined as to include even local authorities etc. within the territory of India or under the control of the Government of India. Even village  panchayats, small town committees, municipalities, local boards all these, to a certain extent become States, and it has been left to these States to deal with these valuable Fundamental rights. Sir, I will bring one instance before you. Suppose, due to political views, a particular village or panchayat area is divided between the majority and the minority. Now, if the majority of the Panchayat by a resolution asks the minority not to move freely in the area or to reside there, or to dispose of their property, which law will prevent the  majority from doing so, and which law is there to safeguard the interests of the minority? As these; are most valuable rights, the State should not be trusted with making laws regarding these rights. In my opinion, Sir, it is only the Parliament which can to the satisfaction of the people, deal with these questions. As it is very dangerous to leave this power in the hands of the small States, which will comprise even village panchayats, we must be very careful and, therefore, I suggest that in place of 'State', the word 'Parliament' should be substituted.

Mr. Vice-President: Then amendments Nos. 487, 489 and 490 are of similar import. No. 487 may be moved.

(Amendment No. 487 was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: Amendment No. 489 standing in the joint names of Mr. Mohd. Tahir and Saiyid Jafar Imam.

Mr. Mohd. Tahir: Sir, I beg to move:

"That in clause (5) of article 13, the word 'either' and the words 'or for the protection of the interests of any aboriginal tribe' be omitted."

Sir, I am not going to make any speech in this connection, but want only to submit that the removal of these words would make the clause of a general character, which certainly includes the safeguards of the interests of the aboriginal tribes as well. I understand the Drafting Committee was also of this opinion, but I do not know why this clause was worded in this manner. Anyhow, I think it better to delete the words in the manner I have suggested.

Mr. Vice-President: Amendment No. 490 is the same as the one now moved, and it need not be moved.

Amendment No. 488, second part, and No. 491 are of similar import. Amendment No. 491, standing in the name of Dr. Ambedkar may be moved.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Mr. Vice-President, Sir, I move:

"That in clause (5) of article 13, for the word 'aboriginal', the word 'scheduled' be substituted."

When the Drafting Committee was dealing with the question of Fundamental Rights, the Committee appointed for the Tribal Areas had not made its Report, and consequently we had to use the word 'aboriginal', at the time when the Draft was made. Subsequently, we found that the Committee on Tribal Areas had used the phrase "Scheduled Tribes" and we have used the words "scheduled tribes" in the schedules which accompany this Constitution. In order to keep the language uniform, it is necessary to substitute the word "Scheduled" for the word "aboriginal".

Mr. Vice-President: There is, I understand, an amendment to this amendment, and that is amendment No. 56 of List I, standing in the name of Shri Phool Singh.

(Amendment No. 56 of list I was not moved.)

Mr. Vice-President: That means this amendment No. 491 stands as it is.

Then we come to amendment No. 488.

(Amendment No. 488 was not moved.)

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That in clause (6) of article 13, for the words 'public order, morality or health', the words 'the general public' be substituted."

The words 'public order, morality or health' are quite inappropriate in the particular clause.

Mr. Mohd. Tahir: *[Mr. President, my amendment No. 500 is as follows:

"That after clause (6) of article 13, the following new clause be added.

'(7) The occupation of beggary in any form or shape of person having sound physique and perfect health whether major or minor is totally banned and any such practice shall be punishable in accordance with law.'"

Sir, I have moved this amendment for this reason that, if the House agrees with this amendment surely it will result in solving to a great extent the difficulties of labour which exist in our country. Our industries, which are very vital and in many places have failed due to lack of labour, can flourish to a great extent. Besides, I would like to state that in our country thousands, lakhs nay crores of human beings will imbibe the spirit of self-reliance and self-respect. We see that in our country many able-bodied persons who can work and can earn their livelihood, are to be found begging on road sides. If you tell them that they can work, that they can maintain themselves by earning their livelihood and can do good to their country by their labour, they would say in reply "Sir, this is our ancestral profession and we are forced to do it". I would like to say that there are so many countries on this earth: but if you look around, you will find this ugly spot only on the face of our country. Therefore, I want that there should be some such provision in our Constitution as would be beneficial to our country. Obviously, those that are helpless, for instance many of our unfortunate countrymen, who are blind lame and cannot use their hands and feet, really deserve some consideration. In such cases begging on these and other similar grounds may be justified. But even in this matter, I would submit that the State should be responsible and some such institution or home be founded in some places where they might be brought up, while those that are able-bodied and healthy should be forced to work. By doing so, our labour problem will be solved to a great extent and crores of human beings, who have taken to begging as profession, would be prevented from doing so. This will create in them the spirit of self-respect and self-reliance. Therefore, I hope that Dr. Ambedkar will accept this amendment of mine and the House will also help me by accepting it. With these words, I submit this amendment for the consideration of the House.]*

The Assembly then adjourned till Half Past Nine of the Clock on Thursday, the 2nd December 1948.

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